Win / Ancaps
Ancaps
Communities Topics Log In Sign Up
Sign In
Hot
All Posts
Settings
All
Profile
Saved
Upvoted
Hidden
Messages

Your Communities

General
AskWin
Funny
Technology
Animals
Sports
Gaming
DIY
Health
Positive
Privacy
News
Changelogs

More Communities

frenworld
OhTwitter
MillionDollarExtreme
NoNewNormal
Ladies
Conspiracies
GreatAwakening
IP2Always
GameDev
ParallelSociety
Privacy Policy
Terms of Service
Content Policy
DEFAULT COMMUNITIES • All General AskWin Funny Technology Animals Sports Gaming DIY Health Positive Privacy
Ancaps Anarcho-Capitalism: The Political Philosophy of Non-Aggression
hot new rising top

Sign In or Create an Account

3
reddit discussion on adoption for cash/selling children (www.reddit.com)
posted 3 years ago by mvrak 3 years ago by mvrak +4 / -1
7 comments share
7 comments share save hide report block hide replies
Comments (7)
sorted by:
▲ 2 ▼
– empiricist0491 2 points 3 years ago +2 / -0

Haha anarchists can't even apply their principles in a basic way

It's not illegal to raise someone else's children

So funny that while some people are ending abuse in the real world, the best reddit anarchists can do is chest pound about how consistent they are when applying their "principles" to fictional children in need

I love that you all waste time doing this while serious anarchists can outperform you and get true, real, tangible credit for it when the future becomes more sane.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– Tenet 2 points 3 years ago +2 / -0

https://sciendo.com/article/10.2478/sh-2020-0012

A Rational Theory of the Rights of Children by Ian Hersum is an interesting entry.

In my mind, there should be a distinction of concepts:

The Child as a Latent Self-Owner:

  • They are a Self-Owner as a Human Being (HPC), and have the inherent potential to become a Legal and Moral Agent.
  • Their ownership is Latent, because their capacity for decision making is still in development, and is demonstrably insufficient for Self-Guardianship.
  • Guardianship, the positive of maintaining the rights of another Human that is incapable of doing so themselves.

With these givens, this follows:

  • Children are not owned, they cannot be "bought and sold" without aggression.

  • Children have Guardians, the position of a Guardian is distinct

  • Guardianship itself can be traded or established via homesteading.

  • Natural Parents are the default Guardians, but must gradually give up the extent of their control until the Child becomes an adult.

  • Guardianship should be considered similar to maintaining a Trust in a voluntary fashion. Any type of abuse of this trust can be evaluated similarly to any other form of aggressive violence.

  • Child abusers can be contested directly, or via arbitration if available, similarly to how anyone witnessing a crime can choose to step in and offer help to the victim.

Examples:

  • Parents may decide to abandon a Child with someone capable of keeping them alive and protecting their rights. This is normally called an Orphanage and Adoption.
  • A person that finds an abandoned Child can work to provide and raise that child, this effort in itself providing them the justification to being considered the Guardian.
  • The more civilized and formal the location, the more notification is required for any Guardianship status changes, to avoid forestalling.
  • You can step in to stop aggression, and your actions can be evaluated for legality by observers and participants. The base assumption when rescuing a temporarily incapacitated individual is that they would want to be saved and taken care of until the time where their ability to make decisions is restored.

Reference: HPC - Homeostatic Property Cluster https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/species/#SpecHomePropClusKind Simple example: "Something that looks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, and has the DNA of a duck, is most likely a Duck - even if it's missing a wing." When defining Humans in this manner, the temporary inability to make decisions does not deprive anyone of their inherent right as a latent self-owner or their potential for Legal and Moral Agency.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– mvrak [S] 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

Very nice, thanks!

At what age does the child become a latent self owner? At birth, conception, later?

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– mvrak [S] 1 point 3 years ago +2 / -1

let's see if this community fares any better

at best, the community there is almost entirely libertarian, the entire thread is filled with moral high ground nonsense about things being "not allowed" as if there is some kind of formal enforcement in ancapville

My claim: obviously children are not autonomous, caring for children is a topic that the NAP simply cannot cover

From that perspective, you can't regulate the sale of children, which is the same as adoption for cash, without diving deep into someone else's personal business. I don't understand why anyone would want to.

If you want some entertainment, check out the thread and laugh at the "buyers/adoptive parents need background checks" insanity. Obviously a caring parent giving a child for adoption would do that. Obviously a drugged out parent selling kids for a fix wouldn't.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– tminus4 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

What is wrong with cash adoptions so long as it is overseen by a neutral third party; i.e., a judge and is deemed in the best interest of the child?

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– mvrak [S] 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

Considering it is normal in the current world, nothing. Also, ancaps aren't about enforcing 3rd party participation.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Tenet 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

Right, you can live in the jungle and not have any contracts, or you can choose to live in a community and set up explicit rules among property owners, or on your own property. AnCaps can very well enforce contracts. This contract can prohibit the eviction of Children, unless they can be transferred safely to another Guardian.

Someone can offer to pay to become the new Guardian, but they are still bound by the same inherent condition of Guardianship - if they abuse the Child, they will owe compensation and may have their position contested in a manner similar to contesting the abuse of an unconscious individual.

The outsider can operate on the base assumption that the victim would want protection from aggression, and engage on their behalf until they regain control.

permalink parent save report block reply

Welcome to AnCaps.win!

Welcome to the Anarcho-Capitalism community for the .WIN network, and the official reddit-alternative for the r/Anarcho_Capitalism subreddit.

You can also reach this page by going to Communities.win/c/Ancaps

Rules

Follow The Law

No posts or comments that violate laws in your jurisdiction or the United States.

No Promotion of Violence

Do not encourage or call for violence against ideological opponents or anyone else.

No Personal and Confidential Information.

No doxxing or sharing of other similarly sensitive information.

No Spam

Occasionally plugging something is permitted, but spam and "spammy" behavior (e.g., flooding the board with low quality posts) is not.

No Racism

Talking about sensitive topics in this area is allowed, but doing it in a way that dehumanizes groups of people or conveys/inspires hatred is not.

Other misc. disallowed stuff

No pornography, sexualization of minors, or deceptive impersonations

Moderators

  • Z3F-
Message the Moderators

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

2025.03.01 - nxltw (status)

Copyright © 2024.

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy